Home > Mechanics, Tanking > Stamina and the Vengeance Cap

Stamina and the Vengeance Cap

Tangedyn over at The Inconspicuous Bear – who is rapidly joining Zarko, Wrathblood and Theck in the ranks of Theorycrafters I Fangirl Over – has some interesting news about the Vengeance cap.

As originally advertised, Vengeance was supposed to cap at 10% of our max health; but no one was reporting reaching this cap, so it has been widely assumed that stacking stamina to increase the Vengeance cap would have no effect on threat, or in the case of bears, Savage Defense. If we weren’t reaching the Vengeance cap at our current levels of stamina, adding more would be a waste!

Well, it turns out that Vengeance is not linked to max health after all, because the underlying mechanics of Vengeance were not implemented as advertised. Instead of being based on health, Vengeance scales at a 1:1 ratio with stamina. (It also has a small contribution from base health, but base health cannot be modified, so there’s no scaling – just a tiny bit of naked vengeance). Word from the blues is that this is intended, and that Savage Defense is balanced around this lower Vengeance value.

Zarko says that his predictions on comparative tank masteries remain almost unchanged, as the reduction in predicted druid AP is offset by the recent discovery that Vengeance AP is affected by Aggression.


Because tanks generally don’t care about threat at the moment, the implications of this discovery mostly only affect bears. The rest of us have slightly lower threat ceilings than we had thought, but we didn’t need to get all the way up there anyway.

For all tanks, threat should scale more strongly with stamina than we’ve thought we observed since raiding started, but less strongly with stamina than pure theorycrafting has predicted. (For anyone who hasn’t been keeping up, stamina now gives 14 health per point, up from 10 health per point in Wrath; so it had been assumed that each point of stamina would increase the Vengeance cap by 1.4 before multipliers, instead of what we now know to be 1).

Any bears who are already hovering near the newly-discovered cap on their current content should not expect an increase in mitigation proportional to the increase in damage taken for the next tier. You probably want to stack a little more stam before you take the leap.

Contrary to previous expectations, battlemaster’s and other +health cooldowns do not increase the Vengeance cap. Tangedyn’s original post doesn’t clarify whether its omission from the formula was based on a lack of testing or on testing of a lack; but the Word of Blue hath come down from on high and bestowed upon us the actual formula, and it contains no provision for bonus health. So no, Frenzied Regeneration does not increase your mitigation in addition to its +health and +healing effects, nor does Last Stand increase your threat during a period of high damage.

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